Challenge 1 | Making the Future Work - Train, Retain, Reform
Speakers: Sarah Ireland, Chief Executive, Royal Borough Kingston upon Thames |Polly Persechino, Head of Economy, Skills & Employment, South London Partnership | Professor Michael Bewick, Interim Foundation Dean at St Mary’s University, Twickenham| Jo Rixon, Acting Deputy Dean for Healthcare Education, University of Roehampton |Professor Chris Flood, Health Services Researcher, London South Bank University and Central London Community Health | Lorissa Page, Chief People Officer at Southwest London Integrated Care Board | Alison Porteous, Locality Manager, Skills for Care, London and South East
Sarah Ireland, Chief Executive, Royal Borough Kingston upon Thames
Welcome to the Making the Future Work – Train, Retain, and Reform challenge. I think we can all agree on the importance of a good workforce that is well-trained, connected, and empowered, regardless of the organisation we work for. Today, we will explore this topic in the context of the healthcare sector, which faces many challenges, just as my own sector, local government, does. We will discuss how we can implement positive changes. I’m not going to introduce this illustrious panel. I’m going to let them introduce themselves!
Polly Persechino, Head of Economy, Skills & Employment, South London Partnership
My name is Polly Persechino. I’m Head of Economy, Skills and Employment at the South London Partnership, and part of my role is the delivery of somewhere between £30-35 million worth of employment support programmes, of which health and social care is one of our most important sectors.
Professor Mike Bewick, Interim Foundation Dean, St Mary’s University, Twickenham
My name is Mike Bewick. I’m the Interim Foundation Dean at St Mary’s University, Twickenham, where we’re setting up a new medical school. I was a GP for most of my career and then went into medical management and ended up as Deputy Medical Director of the NHS.
Jo Rixon, Acting Deputy Dean for Healthcare Education, University of Roehampton
My name is Jo Rixon, and I’m currently the Acting Deputy Dean for Healthcare Education at the University of Roehampton. I am a nurse by background. I’m responsible for overseeing Allied Health Professionals and other healthcare-related programmes. I’m also quite experienced in overseeing apprenticeships, both at Roehampton and in my previous life.
Professor Chris Flood, Health Services Researcher, London South Bank University and Central London Community Health
My name is Professor Chris Flood, and I work partly at London South Bank University as a Health Services Researcher. The other half of my job involves working with the NHS. I work for Central London Community Health. I believe we’re the biggest community provider in the country, and my role there is to help build research capacity and links across academia in the NHS.
Lorissa Page, Chief People Officer, Southwest London Integrated Care Board
My name is Lorissa page. I’m Chief People Officer at Southwest London Integrated Care Board. We’re here to work with primary and secondary care and partner with various organisations, such as higher education, further education, local authority, social care, etc.
Ali Porteous, Locality Manager, Skills for Care, London and South East
I’m Ali Porteous. I am the social care representative on the panel and come from Skills for Care. I’ve about 40 years of experience working in the field.
Sarah Ireland, Chief Executive, Royal Borough Kingston upon Thames
As you can see, we’ve got some real insight and expertise on the panel. We’ll start with a question for each member to set the context, but then it’s over to you. I’m going to start with Lorissa. As Chief People Officer, what do you see as the greatest challenges facing the integrated care system in addressing recruitment and retention issues in South London? Where do you think are the greatest opportunities to foster stronger links between healthcare providers, education institutions and local government to build a robust workforce and talent pipeline?
Lorissa Page, Chief People Officer, Southwest London Integrated Care Board
There are several challenges, and workforce diversity and inclusion are massive. One of the greatest challenges is how we afford and allow access to opportunity. Despite our efforts and talk, systemic inequalities persist, particularly in recruiting individuals from underrepresented groups. I did hear the words today, ‘hard to reach’; they’re not hard to reach. We need to work around that. We must address the disparities, which will require sustained commitment and effort. It will mean embracing innovative and sometimes uncomfortable approaches to ensure equitable employment pathways exist.
We have people in healthcare, domestic roles, and entry-level roles who want to progress and realise their ambitions. We need to find ways to ensure that we deliver that for people with ambitions, but we are seeing a reduction in entry-level roles. That’s a massive challenge because it’s going to particularly impact those people who are looking to come in from those disadvantaged and underrepresented groups. And that’s an issue. It’s a short-term approach for a longer-term issue because, on the flip side, we’ve got an ageing workforce in the NHS and healthcare generally.
The other thing I want to mention regarding challenges is that we don’t operate in a vacuum. In South London, there are lots of competitors in out-of-sector companies vying for the same talent. So, we need to be sure that we’re seen as relevant. I went to Cawston College earlier in the year talking about the NHS as an employer, not just a place where you come to receive care, and we compete with companies like JD Sports and other companies that seem to be a bit cooler or a lot cooler than the NHS. We need to ensure that we’re relevant.
We have economic pressures living in London; people find it challenging to get to work, so we need to ensure that we’re offering good jobs with good wages that support people to remain in South London. Another challenge is that I think healthcare is a rewarding space to work, but it’s also really challenging. It comes with moments of high stress. It’s a high-demand service, and that can impact retention.
So, there are many challenges. Conversely, there are opportunities. We need to strengthen our educational partnerships. We need stronger links between healthcare providers and education institutions, and local government to build this talent pipeline.
We heard earlier from the Deputy Mayor about the inclusive talent strategy. We’ve got existing strategies, like the Mayor’s Skills Academy. We must continue to partner and lean into those existing programmes and support them, not develop new or duplicate ways of doing things. We need to use what’s currently there and work and align that in a way that supports and responds to the community’s needs.
Our approach needs to be targeted and not just focus on young people. We’ve got older people in careers or jobs who feel at a dead-end and want to do something different. You can’t forget those people. They’ve got space, and they’ve got a place in healthcare.
The University of Roehampton has developed short courses to address that skills gap and reinforce people’s transferable skills. So, we need to do more of that. And I want to talk about engagement as well. All of this is contingent on service managers and our recruiting managers understanding the needs of people. As I mentioned earlier, we need to recruit differently, but we also need to see differently. To do that, we need to allow space for people to enter the healthcare sector.
We partnered with the University of Roehampton to create and deliver a short leadership course for middle managers looking at respect and dignity of individuals, so a real shift in mindset and challenging learners to think inclusively and to help build sustainable organisations that focus on the culture and lived experience of all people that are living and working in Southwest London.
We’re financially challenged, so we need to align our efforts as system partners. Again, avoid duplicating effort. Let’s use the programmes out there that are already working to support people in coming into good work. We know that access to good work can positively impact health and well-being and people’s ability to support their families and our future generations.
Sarah Ireland, Chief Executive, Royal Borough Kingston upon Thames
That was very insightful – why focusing on culture and people’s feelings is essential. I’m going to move on to Polly. Where do you see the greatest opportunities for collaboration across South London to address workforce shortages in healthcare, and what initiatives do the South London Partnership spearhead to enhance skills development and job creation in the healthcare sector?
Polly Persechino, Head of Economy, Skills & Employment, South London Partnership
The Careers and Enterprise Company launched the results of their future skills questionnaire. Their future skills questionnaire surveys 250,000 students from across England looking from year seven to year 11, where they start their career journey, and at year 11, their aspirations around that career journey. I’m pleased to say that health came top – 14% of young people in year 11 want to go into health, 8% into social care.
So, that statistic is interesting because something’s not happening – healthcare as a career is not translating from year 11 to jobs. There is a real opportunity for us all to think about how to smooth that transition. What was going to be my last point is going to be my first, and that’s how we use the data better. We’ve got a plethora of data on health inequalities, unemployment, job vacancies, skills provision, and adult skills fund-supported learning. We know that people studying healthcare do not necessarily progress onto health and social care jobs.
Using that data effectively across organisations will be necessary, and using the future information within the future skills questionnaires will be important. I know our teams at South London Partnership have been integral to gathering that information and data through the careers hubs, but it’s how we use that.
The other thing for me is using the existing infrastructures to drive those seamless and coherent pathways from skills and training into jobs and using our existing infrastructures, such as borough job brokerage services and national employment provision. We have the Work and Health Programme and Connect to Work. How do we use those vehicles to drive the talent pipeline? Remove the duplication as best we can. We must accept there will be some, but how do we remove that duplication and drive efficiency? We shouldn’t add complexities to an already complex skills and employment system.
It’s difficult for everyone to navigate. So, how do we make that a lot easier? Part of the puzzle is improving access to real work experiences. And I don’t mean work experience necessarily, but improved encounters in the workplace. And it’s a range of things; it’s not just two-week work experience or a talk in an assembly. It’s a range of opportunities to engage with a range of options.
We know there aren’t two jobs in health and social care, but we automatically think of doctors, nurses, and healthcare assistants. It’s massive. There are over 200 different jobs. So, how do we ensure we continue talking about the rest? We need employers, not just the NHS but across health and social care, private and public, to engage with the education system at all levels, and that requires committed and sustained engagement with education providers to develop curriculums.
We were lucky to be awarded some funding to run the Social Care Academy Hub. It’s one of the Mayor’s Academy Hubs. The focus is to bring together employers and educational institutions to drive skills training and support people on their pathways to jobs within the social care sector. Within that, and thanks to some money we were awarded through the Integrated Care Partnership, we’re running a paid placement program. That’s supporting 50 people into social care jobs through paid placement. That’s underway at the moment, and we also have a social care apprenticeship lead who’s looking at knitting the system together, trying to break down barriers for social care employers and improving access to opportunities, but also identifying what’s going wrong.
We know that the number of people signing up for apprenticeships and social care is decreasing, so we are getting to the bottom of what that is and how we can help to improve access to those. Our second big area of work is careers. We’re fortunate to lead on one of the 44 careers hubs across England, supported by the Careers Enterprise Company and the GLA, and through that, we have a network of over 105 special schools, alternative provisions, people referral units, schools and colleges across South London. And through that, we’re running a series of careers programmes to support the talent pipeline within health and social care.
We’re running an innovative programme called Classroom to Careers. It’s a new systematic approach to employer encounters that might start with a Zoom call and end with an internship for the summer, and we do a whole host of activities in between. This is about developing sustained, long-term relationships between health and care providers and schools so we can start to embed compelling careers education.
We run Careers Encounters, a series of immersive industry days for teachers where they learn about the breadth of healthcare jobs available. There is also a programme called Careers Uncovered working with our university partners Roehampton and LSBU, using their simulation centres to give people an idea of real-world work with professionals without interrupting delivery on the ground in clinical settings.
Sarah Ireland, Chief Executive, Royal Borough Kingston upon Thames
I want to comment on Connect to Work, which Polly mentioned. I’ve been in this game a long time, and I’ve not seen something really local come out of the Department for Work and Pensions before in quite the same way. I think we need to embrace Connect to Work because it’s a fundamental change in tone and will do a lot for our local communities.
I’m going to go to Mike now. How are academic institutions addressing local and regional healthcare workforce challenges while preparing a resilient and adaptable workforce for the future? Specifically, what digital innovations in medical education and training programmes are being implemented to meet these challenges?
Professor Mike Bewick, Interim Foundation Dean, St Mary’s University, Twickenham
It’s a long question encompassing almost everything we do in developing a medical school. We’ve been challenged about why we’re setting up another new medical school in London. But when we say it’s about creating a new medical school, which is not next to or integral to a large teaching house, to quote a GP, I spoke with: ‘Well, isn’t it good that you’re going to have a community-based medical school, one that would reach out to the communities that you wish to relate to, rather than an institution that is already there and has its way of working’. In other words, it’s much more localised, and I think that’s in our blood. If you look at what St Mary’s does with its other courses, particularly those in Allied Health and sports medicine, it has in-reach and outreach locally to the community. And we want the medical school to be very much like that as well.
We also want it to be an excellent experience for students. An alarming statistic about doctors coming to the end of their training, particularly those who experienced the COVID-19 pandemic, states that 30% are considering not working in the NHS. Now, that is a significant deficit if it comes to reality, and we must address the nature of the job they’re going into and prepare them better for it.
I think it’s important to embed real-life experience and promote multi-professional learning at an early stage so that trainee doctors are more grounded. Our students don’t just sit in lecture theatres learning the science; they link their learning to critical clinical issues. While developing the medical school, we surveyed medical students at other universities about what they would want. Interestingly, they said to learn more about how the NHS works because they don’t want it to say the same and want to contribute to changing it.
We’ll build a new medical school, but it will also be a resource for other crafts. There’s no reason why only medics can use this; it will be for all physical crafts, and it will be state of the art in terms of being able to project virtual experiences because if you think about the NHS plan, it wants to increase the number of medical places by about seven and a half thousand. Roughly that’s between 15,000-16,000 doctors in training per year. That’s nearly 100,000 undergraduates in training, all seeking placements. You cannot have everyone getting the same experience all the time. You’ve got to think digitally about how you might achieve this.
For example, virtual reality – allows students to be in theatre (but not in theatre) and experience it as much as possible. Furthermore, access to educational materials 24/7 creates opportunities to learn from elsewhere in the UK and internationally. Including interactive sessions, even if they’re away from the site.
Everyone who comes to medical school now will be of a digital generation. Nearly all will have had a smartphone since the age of three, and we must build on that because it’s a great resource. Numerous applications help you learn and develop your career, but if we want doctors to become people aware of the community around them, they must spend more time in that community. It might not be in health establishments but in social care. It might be in refugee medicine. It might be in areas in prison health. It might be in the independent sector. They’ve got to get a flavour of what else is happening so that they are much more grounded.
We’re now at the stage of putting our final application in, and we aim to open the school in 2026. We want to be part of the SLP and part of what’s going on here. We’d like you to tell us what else we could do in terms of not just training doctors but also helping the region and contributing nationally.
Sarah Ireland, Chief Executive, Royal Borough Kingston upon Thames
So firstly, another plea for your engagement. Really important. It was great to hear about a very student-focused, resilient approach to training the next generation of our medical professionals, enhancing and using digital, so thank you for that. So Jo, how is the University of Roehampton innovating in healthcare education to meet the demands of South London’s healthcare system? And what role do alternative education pathways, like apprenticeships and accelerated degrees, play in addressing workforce shortages?
Jo Rixon, Acting Deputy Dean for Healthcare Education, University of Roehampton
What I’m going to say will probably echo some of what Lorissa was saying earlier on and what Polly has been saying about the work being done across the South London Partnership in terms of working together with employers and with the university. One of the key things for us as a university is that we want to make sure that we’re delivering for the community within the community; we want to be part of the community. And that was why we developed our satellite site and introduced healthcare education at the University of Roehampton. Unfortunately, we’re on the wrong side of the road because we should be at the Roehampton satellite site over at Croydon College.
Roehampton initially hired me to establish a programme aimed at providing nursing students for the Croydon area. With our very first cohort, most students came from the local community. As Lorissa mentioned earlier about older individuals seeking new career opportunities, we had students as old as 60 enrolling in the programme. Out of the first cohort of 46 students, only four were under 25; the rest were considered mature students. These individuals were from the local community and were eager to pursue healthcare education at this stage while remaining close to home due to their commitments. This aspect is crucial when considering the programmes we offer to the community.
Part of our work involves collaborating with various individuals and organisations, as highlighted by the leadership course mentioned earlier. We recently established an Occupational Therapy programme, which several organisations in Wandsworth specifically requested. We are expanding our healthcare offerings based on the feedback and requests we receive from you. We focus on partnership and understanding your needs so we can effectively deliver your services.
Regarding alternatives to traditional education, particularly degrees, the University of Roehampton is exploring apprenticeship opportunities. Many universities are starting to embark on this journey, and while some are further along than others, we are committed to offering apprenticeships at Roehampton. A key issue is ensuring employers know the career opportunities available for individuals entering lower levels, such as those completing Level 2 or Level 3 apprenticeships.
Both at Roehampton and likely at LSBU and St Mary’s, efforts are being made to develop higher-level degrees and career pathway opportunities. It is essential for you, as employers, to engage with these apprenticeships and encourage individuals to pursue them to facilitate their growth.
As part of our recent initiatives at Roehampton, we received funding from the ICB for a project to support care leavers entering healthcare roles. This project targets care leavers, providing them with an eight-week training programme to experience university life and explore career opportunities within healthcare. We aim to inspire these individuals to pursue careers they previously thought were out of reach. So far, our first cohort consisted of 11 participants, of whom three have secured employment with a local healthcare provider, and several have enrolled in the Foundation Degree programme at the University of Roehampton to further their education.
These projects highlight the potential for collaboration with you as employers, supporting career opportunities for care leavers involved in our programmes. Ultimately, it’s crucial to emphasise that successful outcomes are rooted in partnership rather than competition. Together, we can support individuals on their unique career journeys, regardless of their paths.
Sarah Ireland, Chief Executive, Royal Borough Kingston upon Thames
It was great to hear you talk about things close to my heart: community, which is very important, inclusivity and diversity, and how we ensure all our residents and communities reach their full potential.
Ali, I’m over to you now. What trends are you seeing in workforce development in social care, how do they align with healthcare workforce strategies, and what specific programmes or resources or Skills for Care are being offered to support training and career progression in the healthcare and social care sectors?
Ali Porteous, Locality Manager, Skills for Care, London and South East
We have a department in government called Health and Social Care. With the greatest respect, thank you, Polly. You mentioned social care and working in coalition with us, but you talked about health. And the biggest trend, I had hoped to come in and say, is we’re working much closer with health to have a joined-up process for the people receiving support. We’ve got a lot of work to do there.
Other trends. Recruitment continues to be a challenge. We’re always going to have a problem when we have an industry which is underfunded. We won’t go down that pathway because it’s quite a political piece, and none of us have the answer. We have a big responsibility to help people realise that care, social care, is something we all do daily. All of you are social carers, and all of you have the same values. We are trying to encourage people to see the values inside of them that make them ideal for supporting the people who sit next to them in their community.
However, we face significant recruitment challenges due to various factors, including accommodation. The most pressing issue, though, is retention. This is the most alarming trend we are currently experiencing. Unfortunately, you have an awful lot of people of my age who work in social care, some of them a bit younger now as well, but we are predominantly a female industry, and we are an industry of women who are all getting bad backs now; we’re all quite weary.
This physical exhaustion is a real concern, and we need to find ways to retain our staff. We must focus on how we can support our female workforce, avoiding the imposition of long 15-hour shifts that can lead to health problems, especially during challenging times in their lives. It’s crucial to encourage everyone to recognise that care is a community responsibility, which involves looking out for our neighbours and employed staff.
We must provide opportunities for people to learn skills that will help them advance their careers in social care and allow them to transition into health care if they wish to do so. We have numerous strategies to support this. Can I see a show of hands? Do all of you know who Skills for Care is? Oh, I see a few familiar faces! For those who aren’t aware, we’re a national organisation supporting the government’s efforts to build the workforce for social care.
Part of our mission includes addressing the challenges of recruiting adequately for health and social care. One of those challenges involves technology. At a conference I attended last week, it was highlighted that, despite positive developments, only 40% of social care providers are utilising technology effectively to address their key challenges. We need to support our communities in using tools that will enhance their skills and connect with health issues. Transportation difficulties and the predominance of women as caregivers further complicate this.
Fortunately, we have developed a workforce strategy created by the sector for the sector. I encourage everyone to explore our workforce plan. For the first time, we have gathered insights from professionals across the care landscape and identified over 40 distinct roles in social care, aligning them with roles in the NHS. This illustrates the connection between the skills and knowledge required in both sectors, allowing healthcare assistants to understand how their expertise complements that of their community counterparts.
It’s essential to instil a strong awareness of community care within all health professionals. We have innovative initiatives involving doctors in various community settings, including virtual wards in care homes. We need health service professionals to recognise the significance of community care. A key challenge we face is the tendency to dismiss individuals at four o’clock on a Friday afternoon – what that means for the person going home. What we can bring to recruitment and retention is the story of the lives of the people living in our community who touch health but live in social care.
We must share the life stories of those living in our communities, highlighting their connection to healthcare and the vital importance of social care. With great respect to doctors and nurses, it won’t be them who will be going in to support your mothers in their homes. It’ll be us, and we’re the ones who want the skills and knowledge and the ability to see a career in the future that gives us value.
Sarah Ireland, Chief Executive, Royal Borough Kingston upon Thames
Thank you for that challenging response and I agree with everything you said. And for the NHS to have a 10-year plan, they will need social care. So, we may ignore it, but social care is essential. Prevention could be done through that workforce, but you must value that workforce training and pay it properly.
Ali Porteous, Locality Manager, Skills for Care, London and South East
We need 500,000 more people coming into social care by 2040 to cover the needs of our ageing population.
Sarah Ireland, Chief Executive, Royal Borough Kingston upon Thames
Chris, last but not least, from your research, what are the most pressing challenges in retaining skilled healthcare professionals in South London? What role does ongoing professional development play in maintaining a sustainable and effective healthcare workforce? And how are your institutions supporting this?
Professor Chris Flood, Health Services Researcher, London South Bank University and Central London Community Health
I believe that if everyone in the room were asked about the biggest challenges they face, cost of living would likely be at the top of their list. To summarise, one of the major challenges we face is economic. Even before the current cost of living crisis, we were grappling with the high costs of housing, particularly in London and the South East.
The underlying issue dates back to the early 1980s, across several administrations, during which we have not built sufficient real social housing that is genuinely affordable. While we cannot directly address these economic issues through NHS social care budgets, we know that if other government departments tackled these challenges, it would help us recruit and retain staff. In addition to the economic factors, there is also an emotional burden on the workforce.
Recently, I came across research about GPs and their stress levels. A survey conducted in the past couple of years revealed that around 71% of GPs reported their work as either very stressful or extremely stressful. This figure highlights the considerable pressures our colleagues are under.
I’d like to reference another professional group: mental health nurses. Currently, 20% of the workforce is 55 or older, a significant increase from 13% back in 2010. This ageing population presents additional challenges.
Another critical aspect is the value attributed to our workforce. While pay is a significant concern for staff in both social care and healthcare settings, employees express that it’s not just about compensation; it’s also about feeling valued. This sense of being valued must be reflected by organisations, their leadership, and the government. Furthermore, there are issues related to workplace behaviour, including civility and incivility, with many individuals feeling discriminated against and harassed.
A recent survey found that around 20% of staff experienced harassment or discrimination in the past year, yet only half felt they could come forward to report it, which is quite troubling. Furthermore, while we do have a diverse workforce in the NHS and social care, diversity alone does not equate to inclusivity. We must ask ourselves why there are not more senior leaders of colour within the NHS, and we have to look at the uncomfortable truth around staff being reported to regulatory bodies for malpractice; our non-white colleagues are massively over-represented in those referrals.
These are significant challenges within the system. We need better stewardship of the workforce and enhanced career and professional development opportunities. This leads me to some initiatives we’re pursuing locally. I currently hold a joint appointment with Central London Community Health, working across the NHS and a university. This past summer, we undertook a bold project to invite a group of young people from lower sixth form into the Trust for a week during their six-week holiday. We specifically targeted individuals from backgrounds that typically might not consider university – those from working-class families or first-generation migrant backgrounds. They embraced the opportunity, particularly in fields like occupational therapy, physiotherapy, and allied health professions, where representation is lacking. We plan to follow up with these young individuals in six months to a couple of years to see where they stand.
Additionally, in collaboration with the university, we have created two new modules: one, developed by our GP, Michael Chad, focuses on Deprivation in Healthcare, and the other covers Homeless Health. We are pioneering educational training in areas that have been overlooked but are critically important. We are also concentrating on health technology developments in the community, aiming to bring care closer to home and working with our Engineering Department to utilise AI. I’m massively summarising here because I’m outside of my comfort zone with knowledge but using health tech to look at things like biases, skin colour assessment, ultrasound assessment, but actually in the home; this idea of it being done there in a patient’s home, and the image going remotely back to a centre, maybe in a hospital.
The technology is available, but it has not been fully utilised or developed yet. I’d like to take a minute to share a couple of initiatives we’re undertaking at the university. Ali, you will be pleased to hear this. We have one of the six First Centres in the country. “First” stands for Public Health Intervention Studies Teams. These teams have been specially funded by the NIHR, the research arm of the NHS, to assist our local authorities and social care colleagues in assessing their interventions.
In the NHS, we have NICE and a longstanding culture of research, and we are striving to cultivate that same culture in social care. As Ali mentioned, our future depends on collaboration; we can no longer keep these two entities separate. We are very proud of the First Centre, as it fosters collaboration between local authorities and the NHS. We’ve also got our Integrated Clinical Academic Pathways Program at the university, which collaborates with several other universities across London. We offer pre and post-doctoral support, internships, and 90 Masters research degree placements, allowing students to apply for around 20 pathways across four universities. This initiative is designed to embed research knowledge and awareness, which will be essential for addressing future questions based on big data while simultaneously working alongside our social care partners.
Sarah Ireland, Chief Executive, Royal Borough Kingston upon Thames
Thank you, Chris, for telling us about all the exciting things happening and for having insightful research that challenges us about inclusivity and how we manage and support our workforce. You mentioned housing. Nothing will ever change if people don’t have a good home in which they live. That is a national challenge and a very specific one in London. If we don’t get a grip on that as a nation, then these things won’t change because you can’t be served in a place where nobody serving you can live.
My colleague has a couple of online questions from the audience, and if we have time after, we’ll take another one from the floor.
Lisa Preston, Recognition Creative
Thank you, Sarah. We’ve had a couple of questions come through on Slido. The first one is AI-related. With AI increasingly being utilised and potentially reducing certain jobs in the NHS, does the panel have any ideas on how staff can be redeployed?
Lorissa Page, Chief People Officer, Southwest London Integrated Care Board
We’ve discussed the concept of humanity quite a bit today, particularly the pressing need to address our growing and ageing workforce. There will always be a role for people; after all, humans are essential. While AI is here to stay, we need to find a way to integrate it with human efforts.
There’s often a misconception that AI will solve all our problems, but that’s not the case. We still have a significant amount of work to do in the digital space before AI can fully shine. For now, there is room for both humans and AI to coexist, but this balance is crucial as the landscape continues to evolve.
We’ve just heard about significant workforce shortages, and one way to address some of these gaps is indeed through AI. In Kingston, we focus on enabling care, which doesn’t eliminate the need for people. Individuals with complex and chaotic needs will always require human interaction and support.
AI presents an opportunity to tackle challenges stemming from declining birth rates and the need for varied support as people age, including those with disabilities. Ultimately, I hope AI will be seen as an asset rather than a threat in this sector, as we require more personnel and more resources to meet the growing demands.
Lisa Preston, Recognition Creative
The next question is about Pharmacy First. So, with the introduction of Pharmacy First and pharmacists taking more clinical risk, are universities seeing a reduction in students taking up pharmacy courses?
Professor Chris Flood, Health Services Researcher, London South Bank University and Central London Community Health
Firstly, I believe Pharmacy First is an excellent initiative, and if you are a GP in the community, you will closely collaborate with your pharmacist throughout your career. Everyone plays a role; you just need to understand the limits of your decision-making to ensure safety. We are currently having a similar discussion about PAs, aren’t we? Much of that conversation, to be honest, is quite discourteous to a group of professionals who make valuable contributions. Some of my colleagues are not helping the debate at all.
Pharmacists are leading many changes in the medical field today, and they are prominent leaders in the system. This year’s medical school applications have decreased, which is partly due to the influx of international students, but also reflects the negativity stemming from the strike, the aftermath of COVID, and the associated burnout experienced by many. We need to reframe the narrative to make it an exciting career choice. I believe it’s the same case for pharmacists. If I could open a second school this year, it would be a pharmacy school because, wherever I go, that is the need I encounter.
Sarah Ireland, Chief Executive, Royal Borough Kingston upon Thames
I can take one question from the floor.
Delegate
I found the comments regarding social care, which is predominantly a female field, to be accurate. As a nurse, I work in a career that is predominantly female. I believe the language used around this topic can be very off-putting. In today’s world, where gender identity is not limited to just male and female, it’s important to consider what is being done to encourage individuals who identify as non-binary to enter careers that are traditionally seen as female-dominated. This perception can create significant barriers for those considering a career in social care.
Ali Porteous, Locality Manager, Skills for Care, London and South East
It’s a very interesting question, isn’t it? What I find particularly interesting is that as a male nurse, you have the freedom to support anyone who comes into the hospital. However, in social care, there are still instances where individuals in their own homes refuse to have men come in. To me, that represents a bigger problem than the challenges we face regarding diversity in our community. If we are still at a point where men cannot enter people’s homes for domiciliary care without concerns about gender, then the discussion about diversity becomes secondary. That’s just my personal opinion.
Additionally, I’ve found social care to be one of the most inclusive environments for people from diverse backgrounds. Personally, I have worked with individuals from various identities and found it to be very open. However, I wish that clients weren’t asked if they prefer a male or female caregiver. This kind of questioning does not happen in hospitals.
Delegate
It does. I’ve had many female patients say it, and rightly so, since care can be very intimate. If someone does not feel comfortable with a male or male-presenting staff member, they should absolutely have the right to say, ‘No, thank you’.
Ali Porteous, Locality Manager, Skills for Care, London and South East
That’s an interesting point. Many male caregivers feel discriminated against because they rarely get the opportunity to provide care. I have a couple of colleagues here who work in this field, and we encounter significant issues where men feel excluded from offering care. We might need to explore why there is such a significant issue and then break down those questions further. Perhaps the questions you have are more complex than we can address at this moment.
Delegate
I think that in itself is a barrier because it excludes a segment of the community. That’s how I perceive it.
Ali Porteous, Locality Manager, Skills for Care, London and South East
Maybe I’m not expressing it well. I come from a very inclusive environment, where many individuals have been able to develop their identities within social care, being given the security to do so.
Delegate
Thank you.
Sarah Ireland, Chief Executive, Royal Borough Kingston upon Thames
Thank you all for your attention. As we wrap up, I want to take a moment to express my gratitude to our panel, who have been outstanding. Please join me in thanking them in the usual manner. This session has been incredibly thought-provoking, and I hope you all take away key insights related to partnership, engagement, inclusivity, and diversity. We’ve also highlighted the exciting developments in our field and emphasised the importance of valuing our health care and social care workforce, as they play a crucial role in our lives. Thank you once again, and I hope you enjoy the rest of the conference.
